Man Law

For example, when posed with the question: "If a friend gets you a beer from the bar, is it acceptable for the friend to stick his finger in the opening to bring back several beers to the table at once?" Answer by consensus: "No. You Poke It, You Own It." Sage advice all the way around, really.
Some Man Laws are universal: Shotgun is shotgun. The call is determinative. Never leave your Wingman. The Wingman Rule has been challenged through the ages with everything from "But I'm bleeding from my eyes" to "But Chuck Norris is waiting for me at home." No dice.
In an effort to gain a better understanding of this unwritten code of conduct, I sought the wisdom of several men from varying backgrounds and geographic locations. Now, as a public service to you, our TLC readers, and as a tip of the hat to our male readers (you know who you are, and if you don't, seek counsel), here are some Man Laws - from our panel and from the Square Table. We invite you to add to our list.
- Man Law on Refrigerators: The garage refrigerator is for beer only. It's not about the space; it's about drawing a line. A Man from NC adds: in the event that an attractive female party guest is wearing a thong, all beer shall be promptly moved to the bottom shelf of the fridge. Our Man in Vermont wonders why this is an issue. His Man Law: The main fridge is for beer only. Everything else goes in the garage. An interesting approach, and one that I'm sure makes him a very attractive catch for most women.
- Man Law on Food: Regardless of weather, the grill is always the cooking appliance of first choice. A Man from the midwest contributes: further, salmon is a fish, and not a color. And a Navy Man serving overseas reminds us that No Man shall use a utensil of any kind to eat ribs.
- Man Law on Hair Care: No man shall use more than one hair product, if at all. A Man in L.A. - arguably the hair capital of the world - adds: moreover, the maximum amount of time allowed for a man to style his hair shall be no more than one minute times the number of inches of the mane. No exceptions.
- Man Law on Dating Your Best Friend's Girl, Who Just Dumped Him: "Your best friend is dumped by his girlfriend. How long before you can ask her out?" Under normal circumstances, such woman is Off Limits. Forever. Exception: if she is drop-dead gorgeous, the time limitation shall be no less than six months. A Man from New England contributed the following proviso: just bedding the chick, who is probably vulnerable and ready to get drunk anyway, does not count as a date as long as you don't call her afterwards, and no one else finds out.
- Man Law on Homophobes Using Beards: Henceforth, any homophobic gay man who uses a woman as a beard shall be known as a McGreever. Usage: "Leave it to that McGreever to waltz out of here with the only hot girl in the joint."
- Man Law on Bachelor Parties: A Law Man from Texas summarized the rules: No cameras. No recording devices of any kind. Any man who makes a phone call to any female - other than a certified professional - during a bachelor party may be beaten senseless with no repercussions.
- Man Law on Commando Attire: The only acceptable length of shorts and bathing suits is at least two inches below any possible line of manparts exposure. This is the codification of the rule more commonly known as keeping the mouse in the house.
I must learn never to drink anything while beginning a TLC Blog. Still laughing while I'm cleaning coffee off the monitor.
I'm a woman, but can relay a man law I've seen in action:
Man Law: Even if there is a torrential down pour, two men may never share an umbrella. In fact, the man with the umbrella may choose not to use in order to maintain equality.
I'm making the guys in my office read this one.
Posted by: Kimmie | September 22, 2006 at 07:11 AM
Man Law: Memories of shared sports-watching experiences from 25 years ago, including specific play-by-play recountings, are more important than remembering one's children's birthdays.
Posted by: Josh | September 22, 2006 at 07:58 AM
I am surprised you missed this one.
Man Law: If two adult men attend a movie alone together (no doubt featuring Mark Wahlberg playing a walk-on Eagle) a distance of at least one empty seat must be maintained between them.
Posted by: nancy martin | September 22, 2006 at 08:10 AM
Man Law: Always answer the question "Do I look fat in this?" with a hearty "No, of course not, honey" and then run to the garage fridge.
Posted by: ramona | September 22, 2006 at 08:18 AM
Man Law: A man shall not wear a Speedo bathing suit, including at the local YMCA, unless he is a current member of the US Olympic Swim Team...
Posted by: beachfla | September 22, 2006 at 08:58 AM
Man Law: no man has the biological capacity to find anything in the refrigerator EXCEPT beer without a GPS.
Posted by: Harley | September 22, 2006 at 10:11 AM
I'm reading this while trying to get my first sip of coffee down, so I can't quite be responsible for anything I say yet. Plus the screen's still a little fuzzy. What a coincidence -- I must say that Wednesday morning I googled Miler Lite Burt Reynolds commercial to learn who the other men were. Back with you in a bit.
Jeanne
Posted by: Jeanne Ketterer | September 22, 2006 at 10:31 AM
Man Law: Unless a man has been suffiently prepped by a friend, if said friend's wife, girlfriend, mother, aunt, or other female asks for any information, the man must deny knowledege of anything, including even the fact that the friend is still living.
This Law is also known as the Sgt. Shultz rule.
Posted by: Ro | September 22, 2006 at 10:37 AM
Ro, you are sooooo right about this! Why, why is this true?? I do not understand. I can tell my husband something & in 5 minutes if my daughters ask a direct question he will feign ignorance.
Man Law: If forced to drive a minivan to any destination, a man must first be sure it is loaded with at least 2 items of sports equipment and the radio is turned to Classic Rock. A bumper sticker emblazoned with a NFL logo is added protection.
Posted by: nancy martin | September 22, 2006 at 10:42 AM
Man Law: No man must ever, under pain of death, drive into any gas station, rest area or other establishment for the sole purpose of asking directions to any other gas station, rest area or other establishment. This also includes conspicuous use of any GPS unit in the presence of others. Pubs, sports bars and motorcycle shops are the only acceptable exceptions to this law.
Posted by: Maryann | September 22, 2006 at 10:48 AM
Good ones! Here are a couple I got via e-mail from people too shy to comment directly:
Man Law: Unless it is required viewing for a college course, no man shall voluntarily see a movie with subtitles. Exception: Porn disguised as an Art Film. Must contain at least one FFN scene to qualify.
Man Law: Jail Rule: Unless he murdered someone in your immediate family, you must bail a friend out of jail within five hours of notice.
Posted by: Rebecca the Bookseller | September 22, 2006 at 10:50 AM
Consensus from the office:
Man Law: There is no such thing as a Man Purse. Bags designed to carry fishing or boating gear are simply that. Back packs or gym bags with Nascar or sports team logos may be used to carry other items only within the active season of such sport.
Clarification: Diaper bags containing nothing but baby items may be transported from place to place, but only by the handles and not over the shoulder. Other Men witnessing such transport shall be mindful not of the pastel colors, but of the fact that the Man carrying the bag is obviously able to 'bring it'.
Posted by: Kimmie | September 22, 2006 at 10:59 AM
What is "FFN?" Unless that's a typo, in which case I think I know.
Posted by: Josh | September 22, 2006 at 10:59 AM
Josh - the two Fs are for full and frontal, with the third F for Female implied. I know you can guess the N.
Posted by: Rebecca the Bookseller | September 22, 2006 at 11:02 AM
P.S. I'm sure an FFM scene would satisfy the requirment as well. That was the typo you were looking for wasn't it?
Good grief, I'm now thinking like Josh.
Posted by: Rebecca the Bookseller | September 22, 2006 at 11:05 AM
First time to comment - hope this works.
Man Law: The following words may NOT be used in a wedding toast, whether by the Best Man or any other Man: Tequila; That time in Mexico; Las Vegas; First Wife/Ex-Wife; felony charge; penicillin; paternity test; cold sore my ass; or those twins from Daytona.
Posted by: Joe | September 22, 2006 at 11:26 AM
Man Law: Unless said man is a member of the US Olympic Swim Team, no shaving anything but your face. Ever.
PS Great blog! I love the Man Law commercials!
Posted by: Cece | September 22, 2006 at 11:32 AM
Man Law on music: When walking into a domicile where your wife/girlfriend/sister/mother/galpal is listening to Barry Manilow, immediately put a disgusted look on your face and ask "What's *that* shit" before replacing it with a copy of Aerosmith screaming "Big Ten Inch" at full blast.
Addendum to Man Law on music: Always keep your CD of "The Essential Barry Manilow" under a pile of dirty BVDs when one of the aforementioned females visit.
Posted by: Sue | September 22, 2006 at 11:38 AM
Man Law: Although cupboards have doors that open, they do not have doors that close. Therefore, attempting to close said doors is a waste of time that could be better spent eating the Doritos removed from said cupboards.
Man Law: Tasks involving power tools, soldering irons, and other complex equipment are, if not easy, at least do-able. Pinning a hem for a female friend is neither easy nor do-able.
Man Law: Thou shalt not iron. Thou shalt not know what an iron is. Thou shalt not know where the iron is. Thou mayest covet thy neighbor's pressed and lightly-starched shirts, but shalt have such shirts only if someone else irons and starches them for thee.
Posted by: Kerry, the Martial Tart | September 22, 2006 at 11:49 AM
Man Law: You may take the last piece of pizza or the last beer, but not both.
Posted by: Jimmy | September 22, 2006 at 11:49 AM
These are terrific - we should do an anthology on this stuff.
Another Man Law received via e-mail:
Man Law Intervention Rule: Before letting a drunken buddy cheat on his woman, you must attempt one intervention. If the man is able to stand up, make direct eye contact, and tell you to screw off, you are absolved of all responsibility. The Sgt. Schultz rule applies.
Posted by: Rebecca the Bookseller | September 22, 2006 at 11:53 AM
Addendum to Kerry's Man Law: You shall not brew your own coffee as long as there is someone else to brew it for you. Or a nearby Starbucks.
Posted by: Maryann | September 22, 2006 at 12:00 PM
Man Law's that date from the "Book of the Dead":
Always phone home before you start slurring your words.
Never bum someone's last cigarette.
Don't Bogart the joint.
Posted by: Buzz | September 22, 2006 at 12:05 PM
Man Law on Bar Rules:
If there is a line more than three deep, only shots and beers may be ordered. If your date wants some frozen crap, she'll have to wait.
Under no circumstance shall any man in a bar order hot tea or anything like a latte.
The only time it is acceptable for a man to consume a drink with decorations (little umbrellas, flowers, embellished straws) is if he is at a beach bar, it is delivered by a supermodel caliber topless waitress, and it's free.
Posted by: Dino | September 22, 2006 at 12:13 PM
Sue - I'll clarify further:
Man Law: When it comes to music, the only Barry is Barry White.
Posted by: Kathy | September 22, 2006 at 12:15 PM
Addendum #1 to Cece's shaving law: Shaving heads is permitted if performed by a swim coach, with a buzzer, over a trash can, poolside, the night before state championship swim meet.
Addendum #2: Shaving underarms and legs is permitted if performed with assistance of mother, with disposable razors and baby oil, at home, in locked bathroom, in utter secrecy, the night before state championship swim meet.
Or so I've heard.
Posted by: ramona | September 22, 2006 at 12:18 PM
Man Law: Always leave the empty package of cookies, candy or nuts to trip up any dieting mice who might drop by the house.
Jewish Man Law a la Nora Ephron and everyone who lives with one: Stand in front of the refrigerator or cupboard comlaining there is no Butter, mustard, olive oil.......you fill in the blanks. You must remain in this position until a nearby comfortable woman gets up and "finds" said item
mary alice----who "trained" three of these.....or did they train me!
Posted by: Mary Alice Gorman | September 22, 2006 at 12:19 PM
They may not admit it, but here's one:
Man Law: A telephone coversation with a woman shall not last any longer than the time you spend having sex with her. Foreplay does not count towards the time level
Posted by: Margie | September 22, 2006 at 12:19 PM
More from the men in the office.
Man Law: An invitation to come over and watch the game, when extended to a Man, is for Men only. You may only bring another man if his knowledge of the sport and team is equal to or greater than that of the host.
Man Law: Just because your buddy's girlfriend's best friend starts dating a guy, doesn't mean you have to be nice to him. That stuff's for chicks.
- We are laughing our heads off with this stuff - and the debates among the men are hysterical. Thank God it's Friday afternoon.
Posted by: Kimmie | September 22, 2006 at 12:27 PM
Man Law: The true meaning of Christmas is outshining your neighbors with a light display.
Posted by: ramona | September 22, 2006 at 12:45 PM
I feel so embraced today..,
Posted by: Cinema Dave | September 22, 2006 at 01:46 PM
Man Law: If your neighbor is outside using any power machine (lawn mower, leaf blower, snow blower, etc.), you must rush outside and turn on something louder with a larger engine.
Man Law: A midlife crisis must involve a small, noisy, vintage sports car or a large, noisy Harley Davidson motorcycle.
Posted by: beachfla | September 22, 2006 at 01:54 PM
Margie, what qualifies as foreplay? Conversations could be quite abrupt.
Posted by: Josh | September 22, 2006 at 02:35 PM
Dave - you earned it.
Josh - Margie is gone for the day. Not really sure what her hours are, but I haven't seen her since lunch time. I'm sure you're right, although knowing Margie, I'll bet hers are longer than most.
Posted by: Rebecca the Bookseller | September 22, 2006 at 05:16 PM
From my friend Reno, who is too big a baby to post it himself:
Man Law: When a group of men help another man move, the man with the truck gets the first shot at the hot new neighbor.
Posted by: Ro | September 22, 2006 at 05:19 PM
Man Law on Wait Times:
Regular teacher: 10 minutes
Full Professor with PhD: 15 minutes
Male friend: 5 minutes
Female who is not a potential date: 5 minutes
Female who is a potential date: 5 minutes for every point of hotness on the classic 1-10 scale.
Posted by: John W | September 22, 2006 at 05:23 PM
Man Law:
The TV remote control does NOT belong anyplace else but on top of the TV, coffee table, or next to the man's favorite chair. If a man can not find the TV remote control the entire house is in lockdown mode. All members of the family must stop what they are doing and look for it immedately. No one can leave the house, go to the bathroom, eat, sleep, die etc. until the remote is located.
Posted by: Annette | September 22, 2006 at 05:53 PM
Annette - can you believe it took all day before we got to the remote?!
I'll bet there are pages of Man Law just about the remote.
Thanks to everyone who posted Man Law. I'm going to keep these, and when we have some kind of TLC Anniversary Show, it'll be part of the Best of.
Posted by: Rebecca the Bookseller | September 22, 2006 at 07:27 PM
Hope it's not too late for more:
Man Law: If you're drinking free beer at another man's house, you may not bitch about the brand.
Man Law: When visiting another man's house, you may only touch his remote with express verbal permission. If you have to touch something, you're better off touching his girlfriend than his remote.
Posted by: Tony in Jersey | September 23, 2006 at 09:36 AM
Man Law: No man shall call another man during a televised game. Not even during the commericals. Even is someone is dead, that's not going to change until the game is over.
Exception: If two men live in different cities, and the other city does not get the game, he may make one phone call per quarter for updates. Or, the guy could just move back to a real city.
Posted by: Mark O'Connor | September 24, 2006 at 10:33 AM
Any man with a long ponytail who wears faded Levis while walking in public must maintain a sufficiently heavy body weight so as to prevent other men from " checking out" said man from distances that prevent recognition of gender-identifying features such as facial hair.
Posted by: Jasper Storm | September 24, 2006 at 11:34 AM
Man Law, NFL Specific: Any man who wears those cute-ass hair beads had damn well better be able to hang on to the G.D. football if he wants to continue to walk upright in his team's home location.
Posted by: Kathy Sweeney | September 24, 2006 at 05:13 PM
Man Law, No Joy in Mudville Rule: If a man's pro or college team loses on Sunday, he must be afforded a period of grief until at least Monday at noon. During that time, he cannot be expected to laugh at any joke, or to show any interest, generally. In the event that the loss occurs during a tournament or playoff season, the period shall be extended on a pro rata basis.
Posted by: Sue L | September 25, 2006 at 08:07 AM
And they're still coming via e-mail from a Man in Florida:
Man Law: If a man tells another man he's got a great six pack, he had better be talking about beer.
Posted by: Rebecca the Bookseller | September 26, 2006 at 08:06 AM
Kathy,
A true Man would never ask for the assistance of his mother when shaving anywhere. I swam for 20 years and never had to ask my mom for help. That's what band-aids and cream are for.
Posted by: ejrubes | September 29, 2006 at 09:15 AM
Man Law: A man must proclaim his alliance to one NFL team before the preseason. If said man moves to a different city in the middle of the season... too bad.
Posted by: Adam | October 07, 2006 at 10:12 AM
Man Law: If a toilet seat is down put it up. If a toilet seat is up, do not touch it.
Exemption: Any man with a valid FOID card and at least one eye and one hand may leave a toilet seat in the down position.
Posted by: lawman | October 13, 2006 at 03:42 PM
No man shall watch the Super Bowl just for the comercials
Posted by: Richard Sutton | January 19, 2007 at 12:16 AM
Man Law: If two trucks meet head on, and only one truck may fit, the bigger, badder truck may pass first.
Exception: Veterans always have right of way. Always
Posted by: Dan | March 01, 2007 at 07:08 PM
MAN LAW: At a party where chips and dip are introduced, know that double dipping is not socially acceptable. (Thats right take a bite and then end it...if not thats like putting your whole mouth right in the dip!!!)
Posted by: Wildtantrum | March 02, 2007 at 07:04 PM
MAN LAW: thou shalt not touch another mans thermostat
Posted by: Jay | May 10, 2007 at 01:36 AM
I must learn never to drink anything while beginning a TLC Blog. Still laughing while I'm cleaning coffee off the monitor.
Posted by: Juno888 | June 20, 2007 at 08:54 PM
I haven't been up to much lately. So it goes. What can I say? I've just been letting everything wash over me recently, not that it matters. I just don't have much to say these days.
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Water pollution is the World's biggest problem today
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Babysitters younger than 16 years should be forbidden
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The government should be persuaded to pay for all healthcare
Posted by: candy store tucson | August 13, 2007 at 05:26 PM
I feel like a fog, not that it matters. I've pretty much been doing nothing , but eh. Today was a loss. I haven't gotten much done for a while.
Posted by: vinyl tote bag | August 14, 2007 at 03:43 PM
Males should be allowed to go shirtless at home only - Or vary with places for another persuasive speech topic
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Blame the parents of a murderer parents for the crime
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Blame the parents of a murderer parents for the crime
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Children in ... fill in the nation of your choice ... are living better
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Children in ... fill in the nation of your choice ... are living better
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Sex offenders should be, should not be castrated
Posted by: bed frame poster | August 25, 2007 at 02:16 PM
Help the homeless down the street and persuade them to look for work
Posted by: antique auto glass | August 26, 2007 at 08:34 AM
Help the homeless down the street and persuade them to look for work
Posted by: antique auto glass | August 26, 2007 at 08:47 AM
An integrated, segregated society is better
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An integrated, segregated society is better
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Sportspeople are, are not our Rolemodels
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I haven't gotten much done , but it's not important. Not much on my mind lately. Today was a total loss, but so it goes.
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Women are not, are fairly portrayed in the media
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I grandi vecchi delle dittature mondiali si spengono. Fidel è grave e ieri è morto Pinochet, ironia della sorte nella
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Women are not, are fairly portrayed in the media
Posted by: proton | September 29, 2007 at 03:16 PM
I just don't have much to say recently. Maybe tomorrow. Pfft. Whatever. Today was a loss.
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Some need to be corrected as I have graciously done for you ladies, Dont thank me...I'm a giver. It's what I do.
KNOW THEM! LOVE THEM! AND LIVE BY THEM!
1: Under no circumstances may two men share an umbrella.
2: It is OK for a man to cry ONLY under the following Circumstances:
(a) When a heroic dog dies to save its master.
(b) The moment Angelina Jolie starts unbuttoning her Blouse.
(c) After wrecking your boss's car.
(d) When she is using her teeth.
3: Any Man who brings a camera to a bachelor party may be legally
killed and eaten by his buddies.
4: Unless he murdered someone in your family, you must bail a friend
out of jail within 12 hours.
5: If you've known a guy for more than 24 hours, his sister is off
limits forever unless you actually marry her.
6: Moaning about the brand of free beer in a buddy's fridge is
forbidden. However complain at will if the temperature is unsuitable.
7: No man shall ever be required to buy a birthday present for another
man. In fact, even remembering your buddy's birthday is strictly
optional. At that point, you must celebrate at a strip bar of the
birthday boy's choice.
8: On a road trip, the strongest bladder determines pit stops, not the
weakest.
9: When stumbling upon other guys watching a sporting event, you may
ask the score of the game in progress, but you may never ask who's
playing.
10: You may flatulate in front of a woman only after you have brought
her to climax. If you trap her head under the covers for the purpose
of flatulent entertainment, she's officially your girlfriend.
11: It is permissible to drink a fruity alcohol drink only when you're
sunning on a tropical beach ... and it's delivered by a topless model
and only when it's free.
12: Only in situations of moral and/or physical peril are you allowed
to kick another guy in the nuts.
13: Unless you're in prison, never fight naked.
14: Friends don't let friends wear Speedos. Ever. Issue closed.
15: If a man's fly is down, that's his problem, you didn't see
anything.
16: Women who claim they "love to watch sports" must be treated as
spies until they demonstrate knowledge of the game and the ability to
drink as much as the other sports watchers.
17: A man in the company of a hot, suggestively dressed woman must
remain sober enough to fight.
18: Never hesitate to reach for the last beer or the last slice of
pizza, but not both, that's just greedy.
19: If you compliment a guy on his six-pack, you'd better be talking
about his choice of beer.
20: Never join your girlfriend or wife in discussing a friend of
yours, except if she's withholding sex pending your response.
21: Phrases that may NOT be uttered to another man While lifting
weights:
a) Yeah, Baby, Push it!
b) C'mon, give me one more! Harder!
c) Another set and we can hit the showers!
22: Never talk to a man in a bathroom unless you are on equal footing:
i.e., both urinating, both waiting In line, etc. For all other
situations, an almost imperceptible nod is all the conversation you
need.
23: Never allow a telephone conversation with a woman to go on longer
than you are able to have sex with her. Keep a stopwatch by the phone.
Hang up if necessary.
24:The morning after you and a girl who was formerly "just a friend"
have carnal, drunken monkey sex, the fact that you're feeling weird
and guilty is no reason for you not to nail each other again before
the discussion occurs about what a big mistake it was.
25: It is acceptable for you to drive her car. It is not acceptable
for her to drive yours.
26: Thou shalt not buy a car in the colors of brown, pink, lime green,
orange or sky blue.
27: The girl who replies to the question "What do you want for
Christmas?" with "If you loved me, you'd know what I want!" gets an
Xbox. End of story.
28: There is no reason for guys to watch Ice Skating or Men's
Gymnastics. Ever.
29: We've all heard about people having guts or balls, but do you
really know the difference between them? In an effort to keep you
informed, the definition of each is listed below:
"GUTS" is arriving home late after a night out with the guys, being
assaulted by your wife with a broom, and having the guts to say, "are
you still cleaning or are you flying somewhere?"
"BALLS" is coming home late after a night out with the guys smelling
of perfume and beer, lipstick on your collar, slapping your wife on
the ass and having the balls to say, "You're next!
Posted by: John the FireMan aka SteelSurf | December 26, 2007 at 10:22 PM
If u pass up on guys night to be with a girl from the past who now has a boyfriend. then you should not be invited back to guys not for 3 months or until he proves he is a real man again
Posted by: dan | February 09, 2008 at 07:19 PM
Man Law (one of the most important): If, at any time, a man's hand or something he is holding (purposely or accidentally) touches another man's rear quarters, "good game" must follow immediately.
Posted by: Sigman,N | May 07, 2008 at 12:32 PM
Man Law- under no circumstances must a man watch Male Gymnastics nor figure skating, but in the case of turning on said television to channel, then and only then may you clean your eyes with the nearest beer.
Posted by: guy that says things | May 14, 2008 at 12:50 AM
Man Law- Under no circumstances shall a man drive a convertible unless it is his girlfriend's and she is in it.
Man Law- Under no circumstance will a man drink coffe byproducts, only black coffe or coffe with milk... is acceptable.
Man Law- The only acceptable forms of alcohol are transparent or say beer on the label.
Posted by: John | May 16, 2008 at 10:04 PM
No Man may ever smell like Cocoa Butter!
Never ask another man to bait your hook!
Always have a fart joke at the ready!
Own no pink clothing unless you wash your own clothing!
Posted by: Curazay | July 31, 2008 at 02:07 PM
Man Law: Allowing the fiancee to schedule a wedding date during Football season is strictly forbidden. Friends of said male should not be expected to attend.
Man Law: No man is allowed to take over the grill of another man. Exception: if said man is not showing competence at the grill and the quality of barbeque is in serious jeopardy, it is permissible.
Man Law: No woman is allowed to touch a man's grill under any circumstances. If she wants tofu kabobs, that's her problem.
Man Law: Under no circumstances shall the big screen be used to view 'talent' or 'modeling' shows while a sporting event is in progress. This is especially if your favorite team is involved.
Posted by: Dejay | October 01, 2008 at 04:04 PM