Chased Around the Desk   

by Nancy

A few months back, famed former basketball player Isiah Thomas, coach of the New York Knicks, found himself in a pickle. A female executive, Anucha Browne Sanders, claimed Mr. Thomas sexually harassed her in the office at Madison Square Garden. She took him to court and--although he maintained his innocence to the bitter end--the jury believed her side of the story and found in her favor. She was awarded $11.6 million. (Yes, that's eleven million dollars.)  But the folks at the Garden settled with her for $11.5, which somehow allowed Mr. Thomas to continue to proclaim he did nothing wrong, but really, may I sell you a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge?

NBC Sports said that Ms. Browne Sanders's testimony " . . . exposed the club's tawdry side, from its dynfunctional clubhouse to its star player's sexual exploits with an intern."

What's new and startling about this story?

Nothing.  It's one of the oldest stories around--men chasing women around the desk and after she cries foul he wonders what all the fuss was about.

Mr. Thomas still doesn't get it, obviously. Maybe that's the story here.  That there's still a man in America who hasn't learned it's politically incorrect to bully someone into doing things she might otherwise not want to do.  Okay, wait, maybe certain Mormons in Texas still haven't figured this out either. And a few coaches of girls' basketball. Oh, and the occasional--well, now that I think of it, the list could get longer than I first thought.

When I was a teenager and working as a waitress in a hotel located along an interstate, I learned how to take an order and deliver the rare or well-done prime rib to the right customers. And I also had to figure out how to dodge the boss who had developed a very successful catch and release technique. He'd wait until a waitress had a tray of glassware, then grab her around the waist and pull her into the break room. Since I was taller and more athletic than he was, I had an advantage that other, smaller, more timid girls (who also didn't have prominent attorneys for fathers) lacked, and eventually he quit trying to feel me up. It was all done with a lot of laughing and teasing, but---well, it was serious groping nonetheless.

I didn't tell my parents. They'd have been shocked and would have done something on my behalf, but it felt like something I needed to handle myself. Sure, by keeping quiet, I enabled him to continue. But also . . . maybe it was a little bit flattering for a teenage girl to imagine an older man found her attractive?

As a culture, we're still doing that--making teenage girls think their sexiness is their best asset. Look at magazines, television, pop music ("Hit me, baby, one more time"???) and perhaps especially at the local shopping mall.

I remember a friend---a sensible, intelligent woman--confiding in me about the time her former boss followed her out to her car late at night and pinned her head against the headrest to kiss her. When she told me the story, she tried to sound horrified (she was the happily married mother of three) but her eyes were glowing. Over the years, the writer in me has thought a lot about her expression.

It takes a certain self-assurance to say no, doesn't it? And many fourteen-year-olds don't have that trait in their makeup yet. (I watched some of the Texas Mormon mothers on television this week.  Their baby voices and passive grief made me think they still don't have the wherewithal to stand up for themselves.) You can drill into a kid's head what exactly "bad touching" is, but it's quite another thing for a kid to work up the courage to stop it when it's happening.

I'd be interested to hear how many of our regulars put up with sexual harassment (perhaps even before it had a name?) either at school or the workplace or even at home.  Was it long ago? Or not?

Oh, by the way, Isiah Thomas was fired from his coaching job for the Knicks.  Not for harassing an employee.  But because his team was losing.

Comments

[ArkansasCyndi]

okay fellow night owls. Check the time of this post! Here's my story...

I had a medical resident harass me once. Trapping me on the stairwell. Making inappropriate invitations, suggestions, etc. When he finally got the message that I wasn't interested and wasn't flattered, he threaten to kill me if I told anyone. I wasn't the first woman he'd harassed and threatened. I knew he had a gun in his desk. But threaten me? his mistake. The department chairman and I were buddies. So I went to him. Told him my story and well as the stories of the other women who were terrified of this guy. Truly, at the time, I feared for my life. The resident never spoke to me again and for some unknown reason, he was not asked back to complete his residency the next year. Because of this? I don't know, but I will tell you, the department chair was outraged and totally supportive of me.

I know we have some lawyers here... if someone is being harassed and never complains to anyone about it, can she (or he) sue for said harassment? I mean, wouldn't the person have to tell the harasser (or someone in authority) to knock it off?

And who's nanny is it that says she was sexually harassed? Rob Lowe's?

[Kathy Sweeney]

Hard to believe, but when I went into banking in the '80s, it was still almost all men. Nobody called it sexual harassment, but it went on constantly. I learned very early on to bring in a very large and menacing 'boyfriend' to work whenever I started at a new branch or new department. The ones who were too dumb to get the message deserved what they got from me.

Geez - that's over 20 years ago - I was still wearing heels and makeup, and I had a waist then, too. Not that it matters - I mean, who doesn't look great in their 20s?

Then I went to law school, and the older partners at the law firms made the bankers look like infants. They (not all, obviously) had no hesitation whatsoever in grabbing and hitting on women. It was so pervasive, that out of it came one of my all time favorite lines.

Before we were married, my husband and I worked together at a medium-sized law firm - he was my boss (hah - for those of you know know us, I can assure you that didn't last long in real life). About three months after I started, one of the older men at the firm actually stopped him in the hall one day and asked: "How DO you keep your hands off of her?"

Unbelievable - the harassment was so acceptable that the fact that he was *not* doing it was noteworthy.

[Susan]

I was fortunate enough to spend most of my working life with a boss who was highly enlightened and always had my back. And frankly, back in the day I was tough as nails and clients got the message early on that I simply wasn't interested. I could be charming and polite and totally business-like, but my clients (all of them male, of course) knew there was a line they simply couldn't cross.

Maybe I was just lucky that I never felt threatened. I did, however, have many experiences when higher-ups in the company (my office was owned by a large British firm) naturally assumed that I would get them coffee, make their photocopies, etc. simply because I was often the only woman in the room. I would do such things without a fuss but wonder if I'd do the same today.

I think we can teach our daughters how to put out the "not interested" vibe, although this is difficult because such a thing is totally counter-cultural given the music, clothing, makeup, etc. marketed to teenage girls. And we can certainly raise our sons to be respectful of the women they will encounter in their academic and professional lives. I would like to think things are better than they were 20 years ago when I was beginning to navigate the corporate waters, but I imagine I'll be reading a bunch of posts today that will prove that just ain't so.

[Josh]

Harassment is about power, in my book, and I'm not about power. I've never touched anyone improperly or hit on anyone at work, but those of you whom know me know that I could easily create a hostile workplace because who I am online is who I am in person. Since context is everything, I temper my behavior to the audience. The only accusation that I ever had to answer to was based on a trumped-up charge from someone who didn't like me as a matter of principle and wanted to "get me" for something, anything. I think she reported me (and everyone else she didn't like, male and female, for any perceived violation of a company rule) for dozens of things, and that one was the only one that HR even thought was worth bringing to my attention.

My violation? In a hallway conversation, discussing an org chart for a department with a man in charge and eight women beneath him and no one under them, I said that those must be the shitty, low-paying jobs, since they are all filled by women. That's not really a normative comment, is it? I mean, would anyone here disagree, or think that it is somehow harassing to someone who isn't in that department?

[William Simon]

The only issue I have with sexual harassment is I'm not on the receiving end of any, and I'd like to discuss that with you ladies....:)

[ramona]

Never been hit on or harassed by a boss. Which is a good thing--so why is my self-esteem suddenly in the toilet?

[Alexandra Sokoloff]

Sure - I've had very few "real" jobs, but as a screenwriter there would be those producer meetings about a potential writing assignment that my writing partner (male) and I would take - then I'd get the call asking me out to dinner to "discuss the project". Just me. I'd say no, and we never got those particular jobs - a no-win situation, because you can't really report these guys to anyone, since nothing really happened, and it's such a small town that your career would be over if you did anything about it.

The thing that really bothers me though, is the constant sexual harassment on the street. A car full of guys pacing you in the car as you're walking somewhere, guys pulling up beside you and making lewd gestures (truckers are the worst), the catcalls and comment. It's all just another way of keeping women in our place.

I LOVE cell phones because now I can just look these creeps in the face and hold their eyes as I pull out my phone and start dialing, with intention. I don't know who exactly they think I'm calling but it shuts them up fast.

[Alexandra Sokoloff]

Sure. I haven't had many "real" jobs but as a screenwriter there would be those producer meetings my male writing partner and I would take about a potential assignment and then I'd get a call asking me out to dinner to "discuss the project" - just me, not my partner. I'd say no and needless to say we never got one of THOSE jobs, but there's no one you can really report those guys to because it was all implication, and it's such a small town that if you actually did anything about it, you'd never work again.

There were plenty of other writing jobs, though, where the men were fun and flirty but completely professional about it.

The thing that really bothers me is the constant sexual harassment you get on the street - a bunch of guys pacing you in their car when you're walking, men pulling up beside you while you're driving and making lewd gestures (truckers are the worst - I love that scene in THELMA AND LOUISE where they just blow up his truck), the comments and catcalls or just whispers when you walk by.

I LOVE cell phones because now I can just look one of these creeps in the face and pull out the phone and stare at him as I'm dialing - with intention.

I don't know who they think I'm actually calling but it does shut them up, and fast.

[michele]

Och, this is such a depressing subject. The more things change the more they stay the same. I saw plenty of this at the upper echelons of law and business in New York until I left a few years back. The real problem with it is, it has a very negative effect on women's careers. Can't imagine much has changed. If I see/experience less of it now, it's for two reasons. (1) I work alone in my basement! and (2) Let's face it, I'm not as young as I used to be.

Where to begin? How about the investment banker we knew socially who used to love to talk about which (married!) Master of the Universe banker colleague had "knocked up" which secretary at his firm, including talking about the secretaries' physical attributes. I remember him saying, "Every guy would rather have sex with a woman who weighs 110, 115, max." He would say stuff like this in front of his wife, so imagine what he was doing to those poor secretaries at work.

In law -- I worked at what's considered one of the most enlightened firms in the U.S. We had required sexual harrassment training. We also had a number of young female associates advancing their careers by sleeping with much older male partners. Were they willing? From what I could see, yes. Did this constitute harrassment toward other young female associates who didn't get the good assignments because they didn't cultivate those sexual relationships? Yes. Did anybody complain about it? No, definitely not, it would've been bad for your career. PS -- other top law firms I knew about were much worse.

In law enforcement -- that was a highly sexed environment. There you had two options. Learn to ignore it, or learn to like it.

Aaargh, what a way to start the day, Nancy!!

[Joyce Tremel]

I'm with Ramona. I've never been sexually harassed. I work with almost all men, and I've never had a problem. The fact that they're all afraid of me might have something to do with that.

[Karen in Ohio]

The worst sexual harassment episode in my life was the night that a drunken male (married) coworker arrived at my apartment in the middle of the night. He was trying to get in, until I asked what about his wife? That sobered him right up. But I still don't know how in the world he even knew where I lived. Another man at that same job used to call me at home and harangue me about working more for him than for the other four guys I worked for. I had to quit that job just so I could get some peace. This was in the late 1970s.

Alexandra, you touched on another issue--why on earth do men think that making nasty comments to a woman is going to make them more attractive? Do they honestly think that we will swoon from the attention, rip off our clothing, and do the nasty with them, right there on the street? Actually, I guess some very stupid women do, but really, is that the kind of encounter men want? And is that the kind of encounter women want? I can't see it, myself. One morning when I was jogging, also in the late 70's, two different men exposed themselves to me. I've never understood what they meant to accomplish by that, either, other than a momentary cheap thrill. Maybe that's enough.

Joyce, whatever you did to make them respect you was perfect. Good job.

[ramona]

Joyce, if we ever meet, I'm gonna make a pass at you. Then, I'm gonna run.

[Alexandra Sokoloff]

Karen, I don't think men making comments on the street has anything to do with those men trying to make themselves attractive or trying to get laid. It's pure aggression - it's designed to humiliate and bring down women they know they can't have (because they're such @#$%^&* creeps) - and sometimes just to humiliate women in general.

And the flashers - often progress from that to rape, so it's nothing to take lightly. It's a myth that men who expose themselves are harmless.

[William Simon]

Okay, I won't make any more jokes. But I WILL tell you a true story.

At the Company where I worked, one year there was a crisis. A major crisis. For a nineteen month period, if I got home at midnight, it was a good day. I was assigned one of the first mobile phones, that I carried in a briefcase. 1-800 pager, so I was reachable from anywhere. Plus, my home phone was published as an "emergency" number.

For that time period, we never got through dinner without one of them going off. Weekends were shot. "Time off" was, to be blunt, the ten minutes I had in the Men's Room. It was murderous.

Time passed. A round of promotions was coming up.

I was passed over.

I was passed over and a young lady recieved it. I went ballistic, and was told by my manager and my manager's manager to shut up and take it this time.

A few months later, this young lady and myself were in the kitchen together waiting for coffee. She was very open about it, and told me she thought it was funny; the company could always find someone like me to do the work, all she had to do was spend a weekend with the right Director, and hey, presto, she jumps the ladder by many many rungs.

Think I got cynical at that moment?

[Debby]

In my former life as a travel agent, I used to get harassed...by the clients. I remember one time taking a call from a gentleman (ha!) who was interested in booking his honeymoon at one of the Sandals resorts. No problem. He got into what to wear there, and then what was I wearing...and on and on. I started laughing, and asked him to hold as my boss was having a bad day and also needed a laugh. He hung up.

Here, at my current company, they are very strong and supposedly fully enforcing of the harass laws. We have seminars and everything, and sign documents stating that we understand that even an offensive joke can be classified as harassment. So? My former boss was harassed at an executive convention in FL, during a big dinner. Each table had a box of stuff for a team building exercise...and one guy from another table duct taped her arms to the chair...and then around her head, covering her mouth and nose. She didn't complain after her rescue, she didn't have to as there were witnesses. The outcome? Her job was eliminated (although she was offered a better job in another dept and got a promotion herself), and he got a promotion and is now MY boss. He expected firing, and apologized heartily..it is the company that didn't follow through and has thus caused me to not care anymore after 20+ years here.

[Karen in Ohio]

Debby, what you describe is often so subtle, and starts out so seemingly innocent, that it's difficult to know whether or not to get freaked out. But the end result is certainly sexual harassment.

Alexandra, I did not take those flashers lightly, but the police department sure did. In fact, when I got home and made the call the guy answering the phone said someone had already called, and the kind of car was thus and such--completely different than any of the other two guys' cars! I was appalled that there were at least three men riding around on the streets that morning, wagging their weinies at young women. Good grief.

One of these days I'm going to compile all my many personal flashing experiences into a novel. What genre do you guys think I should use?

[Joyce Tremel]

Very funny, Ramona!

Karen in Ohio, the fact that I have a black belt might have something to do with it. Either that, or "The Look."

[ramona]

Karen--flash fiction, of course.

Someone had to say it.

[Karen in Ohio]

That's a new one for me, Ramona! LOL

Joyce, it's not enough to have a black belt; you also have to brag about it. ;-)

[Kerry, the Martial Tart]

No, it hasn't gotten any better; in my field, at least (academic science) it has simply gotten more subtle. I have been sexually harassed in nearly every job I've held, said harassment ranging from groping to hostile work environment. That includes graduate school, of course, where the department chair was the worst offender. So much for saying anything . . .

Here's the current situation, which steams me no end. My current department employs approximately 25 tenured or tenure-track faculty, 3 of whom are women. The only 3 individuals to leave the department for reasons other than retirement or death since I've been here are women (so, yes, we have fewer now than we did when I was hired). And the only tenure-track woman in the department now has been hounded steadily since she arrived; she may not earn tenure. Of the two tenured women, one is seldom around the department and the other has been so marginalized that no one in authority pays attention to her. Me, I'm not tenure-track, so have no job protection at all (and am not a threat to anyone -- so I tend to be treated relatively well).

In the past two years, 5 women have left the doctoral program, either because they were explicitly forced out or because their (male) advisors made conditions so impossible for them that they couldn't continue. No males have left the program for those reasons in the 13 years I've been here (and several males, who have made dismal progress, have been encouraged to continue and given every measure of support).

And the part that makes me angriest of all? Every male in the department will deny that anyone is doing anything wrong. In their world, there is no sexism in our department, much less sexual harassment. So how does one deal? I'm not going to risk my job by speaking up; if the women of the department do try, to whom do we speak?

[cathy]

It's been a while since I practiced employment law, but on the issue of whether someone can sue if they never complained, the answer is yes, but there's a good chance the suit won't be successful. If you're suing under Title VII, you're suing the company not the individual. If you didn't put the company on notice, it will be hard to make your case unless you could show that the company had no mechanism by which you could complain, or unless the harasser was a management employee. If the harasser is management, the actions are typically imputed to the company.

Also, if you're going to sue, make sure to use the applicable stat an local laws as well, and the usual torts of intentional and negligent infliction of emotional distress. This will allow you to sue the individuals directly. In addition, unlike title VII, state and local laws and tort actions typically do not have caps on damages.

Before going to federal court, if you are going to sue a company, make sure to get a right to sue letter from the EEOC. They might investigate themselves, or they might give the case to the equivalent state or local agency, or they might just issue the letter.

While there is always a risk of complaining while you still work for the organization, in theory it provides you with some protection, as any adverse action taken against you (changes in assignment or type of work, termination, suspension, any disciplinary action or negative reviews) can be seen as retaliation. Retaliation claims almost always survive a motion to dismiss or motion for summary judgement and go to the jury. Juries really don't like retaliation. it tends to increase the punitive damages significantly.

[Kathy Sweeney]

Michele makes a good point as does William. It's not just about men forcing women to grant sexual favors.

The ripple effect is one reason we need to follow Susan's advice and raise our children differently. And those in positions of authority need to take a zero tolerance approach.

A couple of summers ago, I got a call from a corporation about porn on the company's computers. No one is kidding themselves about the fact that this happens everywhere they don't have strong enough filters.

After several days of viewing stuff I'd sooner forget - and I'm far from a prude - I met with the CEO with a report. Not fun. He went completely ballistic (that's my word of the day, William) and then I met, alone, with the porn viewers.

I started out explaining how sending or showing this stuff was a guaranteed sexual harassment suit. I explained how the kind of stuff they were watching and sending around was not only inappropriate, but demeaning, and created a hostile environment. Yawn. They knew they were in trouble for breaking a rule, but completely blew off the bigger picture. So I dropped the bigger bomb and explained how I was meeting with a computer crimes expert who was going to examine several of the images because there was a question as to the age of the girls.

I outlined the criminal justice system and what happens to child sex offenders. By the time I got to the fact that they could end up with signs in the yard, some were crying. The rest were petrified.

After it was over, I cried for an hour. It wasn't just the delayed reaction from seeing so many disgusting images - it was the fact that there was such rampant misogyny that the only thing that made these assholes bat an eye was the risk of public humiliation.

We've still got a long way to go.

[JodiL]

I learned early on in my working career to pretend that the harrassment, ie hugging, trying to cop a feel, etc, was just a joke. HA! But it kept the harrasser from trying again as he didn't want to admit he was serious and I thought he was just joking. Saving face was more important to them then. Like Kathy, that was 20+ years and several pounds ago, but still. The company I work for now is huge and sexual harrassment is not acceptable at all. A few years ago 6 people in my department were fired immediately for sending and forwarding on an inappropriate email. No 2nd chances, no written warnings, nothing. Just gone. And only the people who either sent it or forwarded it were fired. People who just received it were not affected. That made real believers of everyone in our department, I can tell you. This policy makes me feel much better for the young people I work with as I hope they never have to find themselves in a position of defending themselves from a workplace sexual predator no matter how "harmless" he/she might appear.
Jodi

[Karen in Ohio]

Oh, Kathy, what a horror of an experience. But it is so typical of the mental process, if you can call it that, of many men. (Not all, thank goodness.)

As the mother of three very strong daughters, one of whom is going to a mostly male military college, I know way too much about this kind of thing. My youngest is the one still in college, and she is actively helping to change the perceptions of the males at her school on what is appropriate and not so. It's an uphill battle, especially since the military itself is so blind in this regard.

[michele]

I hate to drop the P bomb (politics) and I've been trying to restrain myself all morning. But reading some of these stories, I just can't hold it in any longer. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I apologize in advance, and I know views will differ, but I MUST say this.

Here we have the first viable female candidate being pressured to step aside so the boy wonder doesn't get his suit jacket creased. And meanwhile, I'm sorry, but the guy is dripping with sexism. Watch this video, and try to put aside the fact that you'd all like Barack to call you sweetie.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juy9NwI8_i0

He's apologized, and he says it's a bad habit of his. But do you think he ever does it to guys??