The Harry Potter Epic

SPOILER ALERT!! WE ARE GOING TO BE DISCUSSING HARRY POTTER AND THE DEATHLY HALLOWS, ALONG WITH J.K. ROWLING'S ENTIRE SERIES. IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE BOOKS, OR FOR ANY REASON DO NOT WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS, LEAVE NOW! SERIOUSLY.

la, la, la, la - this is space so that no one accidentally reads something. I put this in here because I don't want to take the rap if someone does, and beleive me, I will. You can thank me, Margie, later.

Spoilers are dead ahead, people, get out now if you don't want to see them. I can only do so much, okay?

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OK, enough already. If you're still here, it means you finished the book or don't care either way.

Rebecca the Bookseller says:

OK, did everyone get that warning? So, listen, if you are still reading, it means you WANT to talk about how the series ends, and you WANT to know all kinds of things about what happens in any of the seven books. Believe me, the Tarts had a hard time deciding whether it was too early. But when Rowling herself discussed the ending yesterday, we took it as a sign.

I have to start out by saying it straight up: This series is a masterpiece. This is an epic that rivals Tolkein's Lord of the Rings and Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia. It has all the elements of a multi-generational reading experience - global themes, classic morality tales, and political science commentary. The mere fact that it got a generation dependent on audio-visual stimulation for entertainment to sit down and READ a BOOK is magical in and of itself.

Now - I thought Deathly Hallows was one of the best in the series - the best? Goblet of Fire.

BUT - I did have some questions that troubled me from the beginning of DH - we'll be talking more about some of them throughout the day, but here is my first: Why wasn't everyone consulting with Dumbledore through his portrait? Yes, I know that the school was being run by Death Eaters, but still...

And the Big Calls - who died and who did not. We all had some moments of cold panic over Neville and Hagrid, but FRED?! Not the twins! And BOTH Tonks and Lupin?

And then there is Snape. Like every other character in the book (except you know who), neither all good nor all bad. But to have such a meaningless end? I know it illustrated Voldemort's complete self absorption and lack of emotion, but wow.

OK, I could go on and on and on, but it's time for someone else to have a turn.

Comments

[peach]

DH is definitely the best book in the series. I'd like to discuss Neville's killing of Nagani with the Sword of Gryffindor. How did Neville come to have the sword when it was last seen in the hands of the Goblins in their vaults at the bank? My father and I discussed this yesterday. My theory harks back to Book One when Harry met the Basilisk. You will remember that when the Phoenix brought the Sorting Hat to Harry, the Sorting Hat brought the Sword to him and thus he was able to kill the giant snake. Voldemort put the Sorting Hat on Neville. He needed a weapon to kill the snake and the sword must have been magically transported to his hands. What do you think?

I was a little disappointed that we don't find out in the epilogue any news of George and Luna. I'll leave for now with my father's comment to those who have asked about the book ending: Luna marries a man by the name of Ticks and they have a lot of little Luna-Ticks.

[peach]

I think I mean book one but it might be book two, at this time of the morning I can't think straight.

[rebecca the Bookseller]

Peach - my daughter, who has read the books multiple times, had the same explanation for the Sword of Gryffindor. When I pointed out that during the battle in Chamber of Secrets, the sword was at Hogwarts, not in the hands of a goblin, she pointed out: "It's magic, Mom. That's the whole point."

I saw the first half of Rowlings interview with Meredith Viera - she is planning (we hope it's a plan, right?) to do an Encyclopaedia of all things Potter. She said it was simply impossible to answer all of the questions in the book.

She also said that the original Epilogue was much longer, but that it didn't work and had to be edited.

Key amongst the edits: Harry and Ron are Aurors and Hermoine is a rising star in the Ministry of Magic's Law Enforcement Dept.

Your Dad sounds like a riot!

[Laura (in PA)]

I totally hate that I can't get to this site at work, so I won't be able to keep track of the discussion and put in my 2 cents all day.

I finished the book last night, and I'm still processing. It was an emotional rollercoaster, not only the book itself, but the fact that it's the last one. Here's a few random thoughts:

Totally agree that I think killing off BOTH Tonks and Lupin was overkill (so to speak). And it was almost like an afterthought - he just saw them lying there on his way somewhere else. I wish one of them had made it, so the baby would have a parent.

Snape was one of the most complicated characters I've ever read. After HBP and through this book, I saw no way Rowling could redeem him. But she managed, showing that while his reasons were fairly selfish, he had decent intentions all along. I actually thought his death was well done - not terribly dramatic, but a manifestation of the risk he was taking all along as a double-agent.

McGonagall and Neville ROCK!

What will George do without Fred? I can't stand that the set is broken up. I really thought it would be Mr. Weasley that ended up going, and apparently Rowling had that in her plan for book 5 but couldn't bear to do it.

Powerful scenes, much?

Harry walking to his death. I don't think I've ever read anything more emotional.

Dobby's burial - my god, I didn't think I could get through it.

And another one that got me was when Ron returned to Harry and Hermione in the forest, and was tortured by the horcrux as he was trying to destroy it. Man.

OK, I'll stop now. I'll try to check out any other comments before I leave for work, and I'll be back at the end of the day. I wish I could be here all day, dammit.

And yes, I agree these books totally belong right up there with Tolkein and Lewis. You really feel like they've changed you when you've read them.

Have fun today, folks.

Laura

[rebecca the Bookseller]

Laura - way to go, finishing last night - thank you!

I was nearly hysterical as Harry went to meet Voldemort - between the encounter with Dumbledore and then his parents - I kept picturing that little boy living under the stairs, all by himself.

That's another reason I was upset by the loss of Lupin - he seemed to be Harry's last link with his parents, and his last parental figure.

But maybe that's just me as Mom talking.

[bea]

I love the series.

Luna-ticks. Heh. Excellent.

I have to attend to work matters (dammit), but here are some thoughts.

No more books? Hmm. I won't be surprised if there are more. Harry left the resurrection stone in the forest, and he's not sure where. The wand and the sword presumably remain in proper hands, but it would be a great opener to a new book if one of them turned up missing.

Agree on the sorting hat and sword.

Teddy (Tonks and Luna's son) is an orphan, as was Tom Riddle, Harry, and Neville, for all intents and purposes. I think Tonks and Luna died because of that theme.

Will try to check back later.

[rebecca the Bookseller]

Bea - I hope you're right! I'd love to see a prequel with more on the Hogwarts class of James, Lily, Snape, Lupin, Sirius, etc.

Good point about Teddy. Hoping that comes up in the second half of Rowling's interview.

Thanks for checking in before work. Damn clients. This entire week should have been a national reading holiday.

[rebecca the Bookseller]

OK - I have to go to an appointment, but I will be back later this morning. Can't wait to see what I've missed, and I'm counting on the rest of you to keep things going!

[William Simon]

Hmm....you're all making me wonder if I should give the series another try. I read 1 and half of 2, couldn't really get into them. All this passion and excitement about the series has me thinking about trying it again.

But....if Luna's Husband has a brother named Tocks......

[SarahS]

I hurriedly read the book from 12:30 a.m. Saturday to 6 p.m. Saturday with a 5 hour break for sleep, so I may have missed stuff.

I know I'm out on a limb here when I contradict everyone by saying I do NOT think this was the best book in the series. To me it felt rushed and almost soulless. Ron's petulance on the road and the way the Deathly Hallows were thrown in really buged me.

So here's my analysis;

The most moving parts - Dobby Funeral. Was that Laura who said she almost didn't survive that? Me,too. And Rowling had me at Harry's "death" - I thought, OMG - She's really going to do it!

I love, love, love Fred and George. Couldn't stand that. But Percy's return was nice.

I thought parts of it dragged. I felt as if Rowling was burdened by the school year so Harry had to make it from summer to spring.

Where was Ginny? Aside from one brief interlude that portended more, there was nothing. I really wanted Harry to bring Ginny into his circle and would have appreciated Neville with a bigger role. He is such a great character and with his family history he deserved more. But Ginny? Ginny? Harry didn't even get to throw himself in Ginny's arms at the end. (I remember one of our bloggers suggesting that - Ramona?)

Snape: I thought he could have been handled with much more sophistication. Yes, the love story could have played a part. But I would have liked to see him be a world-weary wizard who felt Harry needed some toughening up. As it was, I felt his death was anti-climactic.

Rowling's monologues- Honestly, she's got to quit this. Having Dumbledore explain everything at the end reallly bugged me. Reminded me of a poorly written mystery. (I think I've used this technique myself, so I should know.)

Dumbledore - Why did she have to trash him? It didn't make sense to me. .

Okay.That's all I'll write for now. Really interested to hear what other people think

[katiebird]

(I hope you don't mind an outsider jumping in.)

The sword thing was my biggest question. The scene was so well written, I just blew past it as I read. But, later as I was taking a walk, I wondered about it (I've even checked google and there is already a lot of chit-chat about the question. Did you know there's even a swordofgryffindor.com?)

I guess that in the case of the sword, it's more loyal to true Gryffindor than to the Goblin's who made it.

And while it's personally frustrating to me that I don't KNOW how the sword got away from the Goblin and in the hat for Neville, as a reader, I do like it when author's don't spell out every single thing. In real life things happen that we don't totally understand. It's not magic, but the explanations aren't obvious.

Also, I raced through the book so fast -- I was so nervous for everyone -- that I have to go back and reread for the details that I'm sure I missed.

And more also, I was very relieved that Harry didn't lose honor over that Sword/Goblin plan. That the goblin took it before Harry had a chance to do something he would have regretted.

[SarahS]

Katiebird: There are no outsiders here.

I keep thinking there was a line in the book that explained the sword thing. Or maybe that's what I assumed as I read it.

My husband wanted to know, if the Elder Wand is so great, how come everyone who has it, dies?

I would have liked more of the book to take place in Hogwarts. I can understand Rowling's need for an encyclopedia.....Will we stay up until midnight for that, too?

[katiebird]

Sarah (thank you!)

About the Elder Wand, it doesn't grant eternal life (does it?) I think of it as a sort of magical gun. So if you aren't actually using it, you're not getting extra protection. (maybe?)

One of the things I have to read slower is that whole scene where defeated Draco Malfoy. I was so nervous for everyone (and scared) that I REALLY read fast through that bit. And it turned out to be critical to the story.

[Karen Olson]

I was totally broken up over Dobby. And I didn't even like him much. So that was unexpected.

I agree that having Teddy Lupin a boy orphan at the end was in keeping with the books' theme of boy orphans and thought that from the moment we saw Tonks' and Lupin's bodies.

The sword at the end was a sticking point for me, too, and this explanation here makes a lot of sense.

And as far as the elder wand, well, according to the story told, it was the invisibility cloak that was the thing that kept one alive, and that's what Harry had through most of the series.

I, too, did think Harry was going to die at the end. She did that really really well. But the chapter afterward, when he's talking with Dumbledore, seemed a bit misplaced and could've been done better. So it turned this exciting, harrowing scene into an anti-climax.

I saw part of the Rowling interview online last night, and it's nice to know Harry and Ron are Aurors but even though she said the epilogue was too long and had to be cut, she could've just put a word or sentence in there to tell us that.

Waiting all night for a Harry Potter encyclopedia? Puh-leeze. No way. It's over for me, and while the ride was fun and I'll re-read, I'm sure, that's it.

[ramona]

William, I wish you would give the series another try.

I speed-read the book last Saturday-Sunday. I am still not over Fred's death. When George lost the ear, I thought, okay, the twins have suffered, so they are safe now. Percy showing up should have been a clue--you gain one, you lose one. The death was so low key--no dramatic wand duel or one-on-one battle with some baddie--but his last words were a joke, and joking with the prodigal brother, so I suppose that was right. She had to kill a young person who had influenced and helped Harry (Marauder's map, anyone?) and I think it had to hurt by being a peson who enjoyed life (F&G fleeing Hogwarts, with Peeves' blessing, can you beat that moment for joy?), so to kill someone whose role in the book was to provide humor, someone who was fearless and loyal and drove his mom batty, was a good decision. But, man, what an ouch. I'd like to think George and Percy will run the joke shop now. Also, in a teen message board I spy on (literary section, only!), some kid commented that they hope George's ear is buried with Fred. Thought that was cute.

I love love love Neville more than ever--and don't mess with his Gran! Once he said she was proud of him, I thought his character was complete. But he had to do a big gesture, and killing the snake satisfied me, esp. after he did the call to arms for Dumbledore's Army. Talk about character growth! I wanted him to kill Bellatrix, but that actually worked out better. Molly got to avenge the death of her son (what a bitch--making that Freddie comment! Grrr) and then, when Voldemort was ready to kill Molly in revenge, Harry was able to save his surrogate mother. All worked out.

I, too, was confused about the sword appearing in the hat. And how did he escape from the body bind curse?

I liked what she did with the Malfoys. In the end, all they really cared about was Draco. Narcissa, in effect, saved Harry by claiming he was dead, which she only owed him after he and Ron saved Draco's a$$. Twice, was it?

And Dudley! When the books first came out, one of my sons mispronounced the name as "Dude-ly." We have always teased him about it, but this book, he was the Dudely!

The Snape-Petunia-Lily story really reinforced the power of rejection.

I was disappointed that Viktor Krum only showed up at the wedding, pointing out the lack of good-looking women available to sports heroes. Heh. On the flip side, I was pleased that Oliver Wood made a final appearance. I always liked him.

There's been a lot of discussion about the epilogue--love it or hate it. I think she had to do some real closure for her younger readers. Truly, I think there would have been hysteria if she'd left the ending open in any way, and there's been some much interest in the romantic aspects of the story that I think she was compelled to put it all to rest. That being said, I hated that Hermoine and Ron ended up as a couple. I will, however, give him points for reading that relationship book. At least he tried.

There, surely I've gone over the quota for giving my opinion, plus I think I've used up my year's supply for exclamation marks!!!!!!

[ramona]

One more comment--no, Sarah, it wasn't me who suggested Harry throw himself in Ginny's arms. I actually thought Harry would end up alone.

I hope Neville is married, BTW, with a bunch of little Longbottoms running around. I think he'd be a great dad. Maybe he married Luna?

[Scotsie]

I agree with most of the comments made, though I wonder just where on earth JK's editor was in the whole middle forest sequence. Was JK going for some who Hamlet-esque indecision? If so, she failed because it made me bored and annoyed. That whole middle 150 page section could have read much faster and maintained the pacing of the novel with a good, strong editor with a red pencil. But, I can imagine it's pretty intimidating to edit JK. I'm also in the process of researching "make your own bumper stick" sites online to create some that say "TONKS & LUPIN LIVE!" a la those "Thelma & Louise" ones you see *g*.

[peach]

I read the book in 8 hours last Saturday. As always the story kept me enthralled and pushed me to get to the climax.Thus some important details don't stay in my memory, at some point in the next year I will probably reread the entire book. On Wednesday evening I reread the last part of the book beginning from Voldemort's announcement that Harry had one hour to meet him in the forest. Of course this second reading clarified things in my mind and offered up details the first reading had let slip by. I look forward to rereading the entire series, probably in two years when, the final movie is released. I just hope that the final two movies don't deviate from the books as HP5 did. Unlike many, I thought this film was a piece of c#*p.

Dumbledore: In the entire series, he was always shown to wise, all-knowing, can't do anything wrong or have evil thoughts and deeds. Book seven had to show that no person can be free of fault, both to Harry and to the reader. Harry's conversation with him when Voldemort 'Killed' him was the only way for Dumbledore to explain himself and his actions to Harry and thus help Harry to know what he had to do next.

It has taken the entire series for Harry to realize that the actions of others are driven by things he doesn't know about or doesn't understand. He is a child growing up and thus sees the world mostly in the extremes of black or white. His treatment of Kreacher in the previous books was colored by his godfathers viewpoint. Finally in Book 7 Hermoinie helps him finally see that Kreacher is product of how he was treated and thus once treated with kindness and understanding he is able to help Harry not hinder.

It takes Snape's death and Harry's viewing of Snape's memories in the Pensieve to make Harry realize he was wrong about Snape. Harry finally grows into adult thinking) and then honors Snape's memory (and Dumbledore's) by naming his second son Albus Severus.

Ginny: She was never a major driving character to the plot of the book. As much as we as adults want her to play more of a part in Harry's final battle or for him to acknowledge her afterwards, these were not romance novels and he had to end as he began with his two best friends.

I believe that if Rowling tried to give more detail to all the characters that appear in DH who played a role in previous books, the book would have ended up being twice a long. So we get brief mentions of them. They are acknowledged as having played a role, but ultimately these are books about Harry Potter.

I have to leave now and probably won't be able to return the entire day. I'll have to read all the comments tomorrow.

[Scotsie]

Scratch the "who" in front of Hamlet. Not sure where that came from. Must have been some Dark Magic that makes random, unwanted words appear in blog comments.

[Lee Lofland]

I agree with William. I just couldn't get into either of the books, not at all. I am curious; however, about Harry Potter's fate. Everyone seems to dance around that topic. Did he live or is the issue just too painful for loyal fans to discuss?

[ramona]

He lives, Lee.

It's a shame you guys haven't been able to share in the Pottermania, but hey, I could never read Tolkien and thought the LOTR movies were a bore. (ducking now)

[amanda]

I understand not getting into the books, but I'm grateful to have shared in the Pottermania. It's an experience I will never forget.

I'm just de-lurking to say that I loved the epilogue--loved the whole book! Harry has been searching for family the entire time--remember the Mirror of Erised?--and he's lost every surrogate family member--Sirius, Lupin, Dumbledore, even Snape on some level--so it was fabulous to see him with a big family, extended to the Weasleys.

I wept multiple times--especially with Dobby and Percy and Fred and Lupin and the walk into the forest! Oh my gosh!

Anyway, for those who've read it multiple times, I recommend re-reading them backwards--it gave me tremendous insights!

Have a super day!

[lowly employee of your favorite bookstore]

well...as a facebook group i recently joined so succinctly put it, "my childhood ended with page 759". The series of my youth, spanning my life from age 8 to 18 has come to a close, and you bet your bottom i cried. The last 100 pages were a blur of sadness, mirth, terror, and contentment. I have read many books for my years, way too many, and the HP series, while not outranking Jane Austen, lies directly beside her on my bookshelf. That being said...

Issues: Even though I knew throughout the book that snape had to be good, ie the fact that JK kept making him seem completely evil, was I the only one who totally didn't see the lily love thing?!?! i mean, it all makes sense in retrospect but geez way to throw a curve ball. oh, and since when does pensive ooze out of your eyes and mouth? i thought it came from your temple...well maybe after you have been killed in cold blood it changes...who knows, as some one so sagely put it "its magic, thats the whole point"

tonks and lupin: holy crap. one minute they are alive and kickin' the next they are dead, it kinda felt like she checked her list of dead so far and it didn't seem depressing enough, so she just killed them. not much closure there

the sword: maybe its cause i read the other books 8 times (all of them *sigh*) but i caught on to the whole sorting hat thing pretty quick...didn't however really get why voldemort made it burn...seemed a little arbitrary (sp)

percy: wtf...where did he come from?!?

epilogue: it was nice, in a bad way. too much of a gap, and too much closure. although the naming of all the 15million kids was cute

favorite moments:
hermoine: not really a moment, just her in general. she rocks, she is the bomb, she is...hermoine

ron and hermoine: YIPEEE!!!!! read that page about 15 times before moving on...and the fact that it was because ron cared about the house elves...again *sigh*

dobby's funeral: good in the worst possible way, this was when it really hit me that the series was ending, i mean how can you have HP without dobby.

the last 100 pages: constant confusion, turmoil, and terror. just how i like it!!! it had you reeling right to the very end and i felt like JK managed to get everysingle frickin thing to happen that could. and of course neville was amazing, as always. in the movie in my mind that tends to happen when i read these books i could just see the look on voldemort's face as harry was talking...kind of a mix between holy shit and you can't be serious

and finally dumbledore: i take my imaginary hat off to JK. she had me hating him, i mean how could he have not revealed any of that, when he saw how troubled harry was...i mean come on...she made it all right in the end though...of course she did! but i really did believe that dumbledore was royally screwed up for a bit there

i know i know this is ridiculously long, but all my friends are slow readers and i have been dying to discuss this!!! i'm on the second read through and already i am catching much more so my suggestion is if you read it as fast as I did...4 hours and 46 minutes...re read it.

[SarahS]

Hey! You guys are really making me like this book! Thank you!

Dear lowly employee: You recall my daughter who cried on the way to the bookstore on Friday night. This was the end of her childhood. She was 8 or so when she started reading the books and now she's 16. She's going to see Harry Potter in iMax this weekend.

Rowling has really given us a true gift. My mother had the Wizard of Oz and she tried to explain to me how influential those were. Didn't get it.

But this I get. And I feel lucky to have lived through it.

I also remember the first time I heard of HP. I was in Bear Pond Books, our local bookstore, and was in the children's section, looking for something with "magic and humor" for Anna before our whole family took a train ride to Florida. Martha, the children's bookseller, hand sold me HP. She said it was so popular in England, they had to reprint another cover so adults could read it without being embarrassed. I think the cover had a train on it.

Considering all the crap that's going on in the world, I like to think of JK Rowling's books as a Divine gift. Honestly.

[Kathy MH]

Wow! Fantastic comments. We had a Harry Potter weekend, starting with the film followed by 24 hours of non-stop reading.

To whoever said Neville and Luna should've ended up together, I tip my hat. Poor Neville needed more page time;)

Nothing new to add, although I love the idea of parental love being this thing that supercedes all. We've known that with Harry's parents forever, and with Ron's, but to discover that the Malfoy's are also ruled by it was wonderful.

I too felt like the book dragged a bit, but that may have been in my anxiety to see how everything was going to turn out.

I was bit surprised that there wasn't more to Petunia (Harry's mother's sister). For a long time I suspected that she harbored magical skills but suppressed them. To find out that her only real role was in mocking Snape was disappointing to me.

I spent two thirds of the book convinced that J.K. was going to let Snape be evil and that was that. It was such a tremendous relief when the cracks began to appear and we slowly received confirmation that he wasn't so bad afterall.

I also wish the epilogue had taken time to explain what Harry, Ron and Hermione were doing job wise -- they literally saved the world and it would've been nice to see how they were continuing to maintain its safety, rather than just hearing about their home lives.

Kathy MH